The responses from my post, “Part I – CCW on duty… and the conversation we SHOULD be having” prompted me to reflect further on the CCW on duty issue.
First, and most shocking to me, is that people read my blog. Lots of people. According to Google Analytics, that post tripled my previous record for daily visits. This means people outside of my peer group and immediate family visited my blog! Shocking! This also means that readers find guns more interesting than the book reviews I’ve been doing. Not so shocking.
Second, several readers suggested that EMS/Fire responders be issued tasers.
@medic60 via Twitter, “Hey I am ok with Tasers for simple assaults. We have a protocol for removing taser probes. Might as well use it.”
cltmedicman via WordPress, “Screw CCW just give me a taser 
“
My friends, I have something even better! It is EduMedic’s EMS Taser. Why settle for a regular taser when you can have one specifically for healthcare workers? The prototype is still being reviewed by the FDA, but I’m sure they’ll love it. For now, go ahead and send me $10K and I’ll add your name to the list.
Third, a reader believed that the Use-of-Force Continuum was irrelevant to the conversation.
Robert via WordPress, “We are not law enforcement, user of force continuum doesn’t apply to us.”
I respectfully disagree, Robert. As I said in Part I, This is about the conversation we SHOULD be having, not just the mandates. Consider this…
We are not anesthesiologists, yet we learn airway management from them.
We are not lawyers, but we learn documentation best practices from them.
We are not law enforcement, but we can learn from them.
EMS/Fire responders advocating for CCW on duty will be more successful in engaging their employers on this issue if they started the conversation from this perspective. Also remember that a CCW class won’t address evasion and defense of the most common “empty hand” threats.
Are we, as EMS/Fire responders, required to follow the Use-of-Force Continuum? Nope.
Can we benefit by learning from law enforcement about tactics within the Use-of-Force Continuum? You bet your Beretta, we can.
I agree with you that we should be taught self defense tactics as are the law enforcement officers so that we can use them in situations as needed. Law enforcement uses a basic form of jiu-jitsu, which can be very effective. If you would like to learn them on your own, I suggest Gracie Combatives (http://www.gracieacademy.com/gracie_combatives.asp). It can be learned with a friend in your own home through their DVD’s or Online program. They teach these same tactics to Police and Military, with some added weapons retention and such. The problem with hand to hand combat is that if you are close enough to hurt them, they are close enough to hurt you. This is a way that tasers can help in EMS. Not as a product to subdue your target, but as a means of briefly incapacitating them offering you a means of egress. A civilian can purchase pepper spray, and tasers without much fuss, but they are banned by EMS organizations for carry on an ambulance. Why prevent EMS professionals from a means of escaping a harmful situation? Yes, hand to hand combat techniques are useful, but I believe they should be saved for use when the pepper spray or taser is ineffective. Engaging someone in hand to hand combat puts you further in harms way, and then it may be too late to employ the pepper spray or taser…
Thank you again for offering thoughtful feedback. I’m not sure why EMS providers are banned from using tasers. But then again, I’m not sure why more people aren’t supporting their use in EMS either. Seems like there would be a pro-taser-on-duty faction just as there is a pro-CCW-on-duty group. Ideologically, tasers might be an easier pill for EMS employers to swallow than CCW. It’s certainly a conversation with merit.
Screw tasers. Medicate your problems away with my patented Haldol grenade! A spontaneous mosh pit forms on your scene? Have a crowd of agitated psych patients? Another angry mob chasing your ambulance down the road with torches and pitchforks? Just pull the pin and throw a fistful of aerosolized “chill the hell out” into the angry throngs! It’s as easy as one, two, three! Also comes in Versed, Valium, and Lavender Scented (the guy at the aroma therapy store said it would create a “calming atmosphere”). Hurry, order now, before the FDA drags me away in chains!
Rick, you are a genius! We so need to get you into EMS blogging.
I happen to disagree… Police officers don’t carry their weapons because they want to use them; they have them for use ONLY when lethal force is necessary… The same way would go for EMS. Pulling a gun on grandpa because he tried to kick you is both morally and obviously legally wrong. However, if this happens (http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_22892.shtml), you bet I would rather have a gun and shoot first…
I do agree, however, that we need to be more focused on training to a) recognize and avoid situations that may escalate into physical or deadly violence and b) be proficient and empowered by workplace policies to use simple physical techniques if confronted with a violent situation.
A weapon is just a tool… Just like other tool or techniques that span the continuum of force (from verbal judo to passive and active use of physical force and others). Properly trained, an individual would be able to pick from his “toolbox” for the most appropriate “tool” for the task at hand.
Unfortunately, I understand that funding is tight, and administrators do not want to tackle this “sensitive” issue. That’s why the subject of CCW for EMS keeps coming back, over and over again… In my opinion, the “smart” EMS professionals will carry concealed either way, because they understand the gravity of the issue and what would happen during a lethal confrontation. And as you said in the first part of the article, “Each side is so focused on their philosophical rants that they miss out on the conversation we should be having.”
As one of my firearms instructors always said, “I rather be judged by 6 than carried by 12”….
Marcelo! So glad you found the blog.
You make excellent points. My CCW instructor offered that same phrase to us, and it is still one of my favorites when it comes to firearms wisdom. In private conversations, a few of my Fire & EMS friends have admitted that they carry on duty despite their company’s policy, for the reasons you mention. I think that more and more employees will make the private decision to carry (regardless of policy or bans) if employers and employees can’t begin having constructive conversations on this topic.
The civil law standard for use of force is “reasonable” force. True, the “force continuum” is a police term, but it is just a teaching tool like we use ABC and OPQRST in EMS. What the force continuum says in cop jargon, interpreted, is the civilian version – force used in response to a threat must be proportional to the threat – on other words, reasonable. Verbal threats must be met with verbal de-escalation techniques, hand threats with a reasonable response, and only deadly force threats can be answered with deadly force.
If you don’t do what a “reasonable person” would do “in the same or similar circumstances,” you are “negligent” and therefor liable – just like a malpractice case.
Thanks for your input, Chief Kirkwood. You certainly have more insight and experience with the legal side of this issue, and I appreciate you sharing it.
By the way – there are a couple of barriers to administrators participating seriously in this discussion.
First, nobody reports their violent encounters – “They will make me do paperwork” etc. – so there is no real evidence of a problem.
Second, many of the conversations start out with “shooting first,” making the bosses feel like the medics are irresponsible and just looking for an excuse to play with a gun.
Not saying it’s true – just saying what people say.
I hadn’t considered the incident reporting side of this issue, but you make a good points. Employees have to hold of their end of a productive conversation with management. Do you feel like there is an organized voice of employees emerging on this topic, or is it just continuing to spin without progress?
I’ve only actually reported one violent encounter, and that’s because spitting on me was over the line. I was ok with being punched, bitten, and kicked, but that seriously pissed me off. So why don’t I report these things? Because I don’t think management is on my side. If I tell them about the time I had to arm bar a violent patient to get an IV and gave valium so he’d stop punching me, they’re probably going to say I “could have handled it differently”. I have a ton of these stories, but until I think the boss won’t throw me under the bus, it’s not going to be reported. A “productive conversation” is not going to happen until the line workers trust that management actually has their back.
Posting anonymously because my bosses will very likely read this, and I’m in no mood for a write up.
I have to ask – why is hitting, kicking, etc., OK, and spitting is not? NONE of those are OK, IMHO.
Now, I’m interested in the concept of an arm-bar to give valium. Why not just back off until the patient settles down, or tires? Or why not intranasal versed, where you don’t have to to try and “control” (which most medics are not trained to do)?
One of the reasons the “could have done it better” conversations happen is because we have no standards and no training!
Because spitting is an infection risk… granted, so is biting, but the patient didn’t manage to break the skin, so I was willing to live and let live. Spitting on me was what got the police involved.
As for the arm bar incident, backing off was not an option; my formerly comatose OD patient woke up in the back of my rig and was PISSED and violent. I was alone in the back, and seated in the CPR seat when he started to attack me, and I had nowhere to go. Luckily, my IV stuff was ready to go, so I grabbed his right arm (which the guy was trying to punch my balls with), got him in a modified cross lock arm bar and started the IV. This was a few years ago, so I’m not sure if we had MADs on the truck, but even if so, they’re kept on the opposite side of the truck above the squad bench, so there was no way to get to it. Also, have you ever tried giving intranasal versed to an unrestrained combative patient that is trying to kick your ass? It ain’t easy. I did what I could to get the best possible outcome for myself and the patient, and it worked.
Pingback: Part II – CCW on duty… and the conversation we SHOULD be … | Pepper Spray Legal
Most employees fail to recognize that reporting the issue of battery on them is a paramount decision maker for management in regards to letting them explore further measures for self defense. As a supervisor for a large service in Nor-cal, I respond to at least two calls per shift for crews that get assaulted by agitated, aggressive patients. Unfortunately a culture of “suck it up” persists and folks just don’t want to do the paperwork, like the Chief pointed out. I do, however, consistently report it to my bosses and hope that someday a change towards how we handle violent situations emerges, ie self defense courses for all employees.
Thanks for your feedback, HockeyMedic. You bring up another great point about reporting the issue. From a needs-assessment perspective, managers cannot justify adding self-defense courses to a training budget without a documented “need.”
Keep up the good work out there!